He still thinks Trump’s a ‘complete narcissist’, but Stephen Colbert is coming to terms with the end

Each episode of The Late Show With Stephen Colbert over the past few weeks has offered a fresh reminder that the final one is rapidly approaching. Oprah Winfrey swung by to tell Colbert she needed to “say goodbye”. Jake Tapper came armed with a farewell gift. Billy Crystal sang him a song. The audience ovations are getting louder and louder. “The feelings of the show ending are growing significantly now,” Colbert said.

Colbert’s observation was part of wide-ranging interview in his office above the Ed Sullivan Theatre on Broadway. Appearing relaxed (he was barefoot) but also a bit restless (he occasionally fidgeted with an old-school football helmet), he reflected on the coming end of The Late Show on May 21, as well as his two-decade career as a late-night host. He also spoke about how his show had become so topical, President Donald Trump and what he might do next.

He could be, as he put it, “long-winded” at times. Indeed. For one question, he gave an answer that lasted, with limited interruption, for 18 minutes.

Of course, it was not Colbert’s decision to end The Late Show. CBS announced last year the network would cancel the show after this season, its 11th, for financial reasons; it was soon widely reported that The Late Show was losing tens of millions of dollars a year. Advertising revenue for all late-night shows has plummeted in recent years, and the number of shows has also fallen.

Still, many have been sceptical of CBS’ explanation. At the time, CBS’ parent company, Paramount, was closing a multibillion-dollar merger with the movie studio Skydance, a deal that required the Trump administration’s approval. Two weeks before the cancellation was announced, Paramount agreed to pay Trump $US16 million ($22.2 million) to settle a lawsuit over an interview on CBS’ 60 Minutes, a suit many lawyers described as meritless. Colbert had been a sharp critic of Trump for over a decade. Colbert said the cancellation had surprised him, though he has made light of it, too.

Here are excerpts from the interview, edited and condensed for length and clarity.

It’s been nine months since you learnt that you were cancelled. CBS obviously claims that the show was cancelled for financial reasons. Others are sceptical.

I do not dispute their rationale. I do make jokes about it. But I also completely understand why people would say (A) that doesn’t make sense to me and (B) that seems fishy to me, because the network did it to themselves by bending the knee to the Trump administration over a $US20 billion (about $27.7 billion), settled for $US16 million ($22.2 million), completely frivolous lawsuit.

It’s possible that two things can be true. Broadcast can be in trouble. They cannot monetise because of things like YouTube, because of the competition of streaming. They’ve got the books, and I do not have any desire to debate them over what they say their business model is and how it does not work for them any more. But less than two years before they called to say it’s over, they were very eager for me to be signed for a long time. So, something changed.

You said that you understand if people make the assumption that the cancellation was “fishy.” But where have you settled out on this?

I believe two things can be true. I’m not saying the two things are true. It behooves me not, it ain’t “behoovy” for me, to spend a lot of time thinking about that. I have zero desire to have a contentious relationship with my network. I’ve really liked working with CBS. They’ve been great partners. And I’d like to end it that way. Eleven years is a long time to work here. And almost 10 years before that, almost 21 years altogether, in late night. I feel so much better to be “grateful for” than to be “mad about”.

When Colbert took over The Late Show from David Letterman in 2015, his plan was not to have a ruthlessly topical or political show. But Colbert’s opening five months on the show were rocky, and soon he started doing topical jokes. By the 2016 national party conventions, Colbert went all-in on news and biting criticism of Trump, and critics were suddenly writing rave reviews. Higher ratings followed. The change worked, right?

I was like Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven, or is it some other movie? He buried his guns. And I’m like, you know, I buried those damn guns. I was talking to Paul Dinello – he’s one of my oldest friends and one of my producers here – and he’s like, “You’re having fun, and people love to see that.” And I said, “But that means I got to go dig up the guns.” And he says, “Buddy, that’s the part the audience wants to see.”

Why do you think the Federal Communications Commission and the Trump administration are so focused on you?

Authoritarians don’t like anybody who doesn’t give them undue dignity. Comedians are anti-authoritarian by nature. And authoritarians are never going to like anybody to laugh at them. The number of newspeople who have said to me or Jon Stewart or any of the guys who do this, “God, I wish I could say what you say on air.” And we can. I think that upsets them. I think it might be upsetting that we really do not live in their world of principalities and powers.

Given that you and other late-night hosts have become political targets, and given how partisan late night has become, do you have any regrets that it’s gotten to this point?

I don’t have any problem with Trump being a Republican. I have a problem with Trump being a complete narcissist who is only working for his own interest and does not appear to care if the entire world burns. That’s not a partisan position. I have eyeballs and ears, and I think calling late night partisan is just roughing the ref. And we don’t even want to be refs, but they perceive us as refs. I reject the partisan description. Partisan means you’re never, ever going to make a joke about a Democrat, and that’s just not true. There’s just no comparison of how fertile the fields are.

So, what’s next? (Colbert, who will turn 62 before his show ends, is working on a script for Warner Bros for a new Lord of the Rings movie. He also shared that he loves a live audience. He likes being a host and interviewing people. He loves podcasts and spends “more time with podcasts than any form of entertainment.” And he wants “to do comedy”.) You won’t know until you’re done with the show?

It takes all my time, so I don’t know. People have called to say, “Do you want to do X, Y or Z?” And I would say, like: “Hey, that’s great. I don’t think I could give you a good answer until I can really think about it.” It literally took me years to think enough about writing one script. And I put a lot of thought into it. And I feel good about what we’re doing, and I want to feel that good about everything I do. So when this is over, and I have a little time to breathe, probably after turning in the first draft, too, of this thing, I’ll know then.

Now I can be as interested as I want to be on a daily basis, as opposed to as interested as I need to be to do a show that is about what our national conversation was about. I can opt out of the national conversation for a day or two. I mean, I’m an American. I still care about my country. I’m still going to care, but I can do that recreationally, you know, or privately.

The Late Show with Stephen Colbert streams on 10Play.This article originally appeared in The New York Times.

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