‘I Play Rocky’ is an ‘anti-money movie,’ says its director. Just like the original

In this week’s episode of The Envelope podcast, director Peter Farrelly, writer Peter Gamble and the cast of “I Play Rocky” share stories from re-creating one of the greatest films of all time live at AFI Fest.

Kelvin Washington: Hello and welcome to the latest episode of The Envelope. Kelvin Washington [here with] Yvonne Villarreal [and] Mark Olsen as usual. And listen, Oscar season is upon us. Football season is — I’m looking at you, [Yvonne] — football season is upon us, which means a lot of people play fantasy football. It’s the reason why a lot [of] work is not getting done at offices. For Oscar season, give me your pick. You know, if I have No. 1 fantasy pick, it doesn’t necessarily have to be the biggest, but maybe it’s of value. Like, this is a sleeper that can gain a lot of respect. Or maybe you wanna go with an obvious pick as well. But just the film that you’re saying, “I’m telling you, I got a lot riding on this one.” Either of you can set it off. Mark, maybe if you got one, you wanna go?

Mark Olsen: I’ll say, I think a movie that I think probably is going to have strong support across the board is “The Invite,” which came out over the summer. It’s the kind of movie that in some ways could be easily forgotten in awards season. But I think there’s enough enthusiasm for it and also the team behind it. Olivia Wilde, the director and star of the movie, she’s shooting another movie in London right now, but she has been as strong of a presence at screenings in New York and Los Angeles as people who, as far as I know, are not also shooting in the movie in another country right now. And also I think it’s the kind of movie that has the possibility of very broad support: actor, actress, supporting, the crafts categories, screenplay, cinematography, editing. I just think that movie could pick up a lot of nominations, and if in fact you were doing a fantasy draft, I think it would be really strong on your roster.

Washington: Are you fantasy footballing at all?

Olsen: No. [But] I’ve heard enough movie draft rigmarole that I’ve picked up the lingo.

Washington: What do you have, Yvonne?

Villarreal: I don’t know how to play this game. I’m just assuming that I should go with something that’ll take me far. Are there brackets involved?

Washington: No. Sort of. There’s matchups.

Villarreal: Whatever. I’m going to pick “You Can See Everything,” because this is a movie that launched a million think pieces. It follows notorious Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes and her partner Billy Evans in the lead-up to her sentence in federal prison, and it’s just so striking the sort of conversations that are happening around this film. I gave six hours of my life to it. I saw it twice, OK, just because I wanted to see someone I know watch it and get their experience. I was, I guess, my own Nathan Fielder in the moment. Like, I wanted see how they were responding and just staring at them watching it. But I think it’s fascinating how much conversation has erupted over this, and I’m curious to see how much of that will serve it well in the lead-up to Oscars.

Washington: I think you hit on something — the conversation. There may have been films that did bigger [box office], or maybe you got the billboards all around town kind of thing, but this is the one that just did the watercooler conversation. Folks were bringing up whether they thought she was crazy, whether they thought there was some other angle to it that they didn’t consider, whether it was a conversation about her eyes. We’re gonna not address that?

Villarreal: The baby bouncing.

Washington: One that [I picked] for different reasons and [came out] some time ago, “Project Hail Mary.” We’ve seen where you can be a big time A-list actor, actress, but that moment that kind of takes you to the next level is when you have, the only thing I can call it is “castaway theory,” where you’re kind of playing a role by yourself to an extent. And you know, “The Martian” [is] another example. And I feel like Ryan Gosling has that with this. There was some warmth to it, and it was a bigger budget , but I just think it was one of those films that universally was so loved and well received. That was some time ago, but that’s one that I’m keeping my eye on as well. Any objections?

Olsen: I think that’s a great choice because it’s interesting in relation to awards season that when the movie came out earlier in the year, people talked about it as “hopecore” — they were sort of saying it felt like this beacon of light at what felt like a dark moment, and I think now that the national mood is shifting a little bit [and it looks like we’re going to a brighter time, it will be interesting to see that become sort of a beacon as it moves forward through awards season.

Washington: Yeah, if it’s going to be able to regain its traction a little bit. I want to get to you, Yvonne. You had a chance to have a conversation with the folks behind “I Play Rocky.” Tell us a little more about that.

Villarreal: Well, talk about “hopecore.” This is a biographical drama that tracks the true underdog story of an unknown and struggling Sylvester Stallone as he was writing the script for “Rocky,” which is a film we all know today. I don’t think any of us remember a time when it wasn’t in our consciousness. But he wrote that in three and a half days, and then we sort of see his journey of trying to get this made and how many times they were trying to pay him off for this script. But he was adamant that he wanted to play Rocky. He wasn’t gonna sell it so that someone else can star in it. And it comes from Peter Farrelly, who’s known for comedies like “Dumb and Dumber,” the script’s from Peter Gamble, and Anthony Ippolito plays Sylvester Stallone. And he has familiarity with playing these well-known legendary actors. He did Al Pacino in “The Offer,” which tracked the making of “The Godfather.” So he’s really well versed in this. And so it was interesting to talk to the creatives and the cast at AFI Fest.

Yvonne Villarreal: How does it feel watching it with a crowd?

Peter Farrelly: That was such a high, I can’t even tell you. Watching that movie is like being at a concert for me. That’s the beauty of being in film, having it here in a theater. You could feel what everyone is going through, and you’re sharing an emotion and it’s really great.

Villarreal: I want to start things off by talking about the person whose story is why we’re here today: Sylvester Stallone. He wasn’t directly involved with this project, but you sought his blessing early on. He also saw a final cut of the film at his home and gave you feedback right after. Tell me why it was important to you to get his blessing and what it was like knowing that this person, who’s still very much alive, was about to watch it?

Farrelly: This doesn’t happen without Sylvester Stallone. I don’t care what happens with this movie — who likes it, if the world loved it — but if Sylvester didn’t like it, it would really be disappointing. The first thing we did was go to him. We sent him Peter Gamble’s great script. I met with him and I said, “I won’t do it unless you want us to.” He said, “Do it.” Then we had a discussion about “Should he be involved and come on as a producer?” I said, “Personally, I think it’ll hurt you because you come across so well here. And if at the end we see ‘Produced by’ you, people are gonna think, ‘Oh, that’s why. He shaped it.’ ” And he agreed with me. I said, “I think you should separate from it.” And about a week later, he did an interview and someone said, “What do you think about the movie they’re doing about you?” He goes, “I know nothing about it.” And all of a sudden, the internet went crazy. … I called Sylvester. I said “What are you doing?” He goes, “You told me to separate myself.” I said, “Not that far.” He goes, “OK, well, going forward, I will remember that.”

Villarreal: Peter [Gamble], what was it about Stallone’s early days that you felt were worth a story today?

Peter Gamble: Being an underdog is a universal feeling. And I think feeling unseen is a universal feeling. And there was something about that that I connected to. I’ve been doing this for 30 years. I’ve been trying for a long time. I was talking to my manager about it and we were talking about biopics and his name came up, and I just felt this thing in my heart and I was like, “That’s the one.” So many people just want to figure out how to take what’s in their heart and in their soul and just make the universe see it and do something great. I feel like this is the original story that everybody knows that shows them the way. That was what drew me to it.

Villarreal: I’m still stuck on the fact that he wrote this screenplay in three days.

Gamble: Three and a half.

Villarreal: Was there a piece of information as you started doing research that you didn’t know that really informed or fueled what you were doing?

Gamble: There was so much. He’s told the story so many times, and in so many different ways. It was going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole on the internet, and it was so fun. It was so glorious because he’s not someone who tells the story exactly the same way every time. He kissed the Blarney Stone. He likes to explore language as he’s doing it. But there was this one day I went down this one rabbit hole where his former roommate in college talked about him living in a closet under the stairs like Harry Potter. All he had was room for this bed and [was] recording poetry to work on his lisp. I was like, “You can’t make that up.” I would never invent something like that. I took that with the other part I knew about him living in this flop house above a porn theater. That unlocked everything for me. This guy who’s got poetry in his soul, just surrounded by darkness and just trying to let that light shine. That did it for me.

Villarreal: What rabbit holes did [the rest of] you find yourselves going down in sort of researching your characters? Matt [Dillon, who plays Frank Stallone]?

Matt Dillon: I was first very taken with the script. I know Peter, we’d worked together. And “Rocky” was such a big, important movie in my youth. I remembered seeing it on my mother’s black-and-white TV in the kitchen. I remember seeing this guy hitting the meat with the hat, and I was like, “What is this? Who is this?” This feeling of authenticity of it. So the idea of playing the father of that guy that I saw when I was a little boy on TV originally… [“Rocky”] really changed my world. It really did. That’s the power of cinema, That’s what this film really did. Then I spoke to Peter and Peter, and what I got back from them was, “Well, this guy’s pretty brutal.” Peter told me that Sly said, “You can’t go too far with how tough he was on me.” But there is humanity there, and I think that he doesn’t know how to show the love, but he has the love for Sly, and that was really important.

Villarreal: Was that a tough thing to balance of showing how he challenges his son? Because he does tell him, “You don’t have the physique, you don’t have the voice to make it” —

Dillon: He said a whole lot more, but they cut it out. Stallone’s a good-looking guy; by the way, so is this guy here, Anthony. To keep saying that he’s ugly, it really wasn’t the case with him.

Villarreal: Anthony, I know that you spoke with Stallone. As an actor at the beginning stages of your career, what did you learn about yourself and how you want to navigate this business in living his story and in hearing directly from him?

Anthony Ippolito: First and foremost, by the time I got to speak to him, I had already done a year and a half or so of research. We were about to [start shooting] a month later. It was very built up by that point. I was just so grateful that he was willing to take the time and share some of the stuff because it’s such a pivotal period of time in his life. He was down and out and very isolated. This is a vulnerable thing. And seeing what he was able to persevere through and his endurance is something that really stuck out to me. And prevail. Seeing that just shows you that you could do a lot more than you think sometimes.

Villarreal: When you see how often he said no in those negotiations, did you put yourself in that place and wonder where you might have cracked? Because I did.

Ippolito: I don’t know, there’s a fine line between madness and creativity. It was his baby by that point, and it represented more than the money. It’s the principle of it. To this day it’s really a perplexing thing, the amount he was [able] to say no to and the things that were going against him at the same time. It’s remarkable. It’s part of the reason we’re making the movie.

Farrelly: By the way, the message to this movie — people have asked me — is listen to your heart; be true to yourself. To me, it’s an anti-money movie. Everybody today wants to be a billionaire, and that’s never gonna make you happy. I know a couple. That doesn’t make you happy. What makes you happy is being true to yourself, and I hope this inspires people to do that.

Villarreal: Do you think it’s possible to still have that sort of grit and perseverance to say no and stick with it?

Farrelly: Absolutely. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck did it when they wrote “Good Will Hunting.” They got the same thing this went through. And they had a mantra. They were saying, “Rocky.” Seriously, they talk about it. … They really held out because if they hadn’t held out, they wouldn’t have had the careers they had. I don’t think those days are over. And in fact, in some ways, it might even be easier now because there are so many new people coming up and people will take a chance on you easier.

Villarreal: AnnaSophia, Sasha was an artist. How did learning about her own creative passions outside the relationship inform your approach to playing her as this active character that played a big role in this outside of just being “supportive partner”?

AnnaSophia Robb: Sasha was such a gift to play. First, [just] reading about her and learning about her in the script because the world doesn’t really know her story. She’s a private person. Reading the beautiful character that Peter Gamble brought to life based on a lot of research, and then doing my own research, I think that there was a freedom to her. She was an artist herself. She took photos on set. She was a photographer. That artist spirit of, “Let’s just try and if things fail, then so be it, but let’s at least give it a shot and have that hope” is really important to centering her. And I shot on the Minolta 65 all throughout the shoot — the camera that she used. That was sort of my physical grounding. I have a lot of beautiful photos of the whole cast. It was also a way to center Anthony because I was physically focusing and trying to put my energy on capturing the moment and being really present. Sly wrote me a note that was passed along to me about both of them, their marriage being like rocks leaning together and that she was sunshine. It was really tangible things that I was trying to bring in as well. We all have Sashas in our lives as filmmakers. It’s those people who support us. I used my husband as a reference for inspiration.

Villarreal: I want to talk about a moment that I think we all can relate to in some way, which is the fibbing on a resume. Stephan and Kiki, we see how your characters have to find a way to get it done. Has there been a moment of that for you in real life where you had to embellish the truth?

Stephan James: This is where I really resonated with Carl [Weathers]. I’ve lied about all kinds of things for a job. I speak German, I swim, I do ballet, archery, all types of things. My agents know. They’re all here today. My agents and my managers know. All types of lies to get the job. Whatever we got to do, right?

Villarreal: Did you fib for this one?

James: Yes, but I won’t let you in on that yet. Pete still likes me, so I won’t give away all my secrets, but, yeah, all kinds of lies.

Kiki Seto: I have a little bit of a funny story about this, which is that the second [assistant director] called me about a week before filming — I had already booked the part — and he asked me if I knew how to ice skate. I told him I went [skating] in middle school a lot. It was the thing to do on Friday nights. I was telling the truth. And I called someone on my team after to let them know, “Hey, the production just called. They want to know if I know how to ice skate. I told them, ‘I think enough.’ ” And he goes, “Oh, yeah, I already told him you know how to ice skate.” He said, “You can do anything.” And I thought, “Yeah, that’s nice. I like that.”

Villarreal: Watching what goes on during the negotiations to make “Rocky” between PJ and Tracy’s characters [producer Irwin Winkler and Sandy Maddox, a composite studio executive, respectively] is like watching “Rocky” in the ring. PJ, what was it like developing that chemistry with Toby Kebbell, who plays your producing partner [Robert Chartoff], in terms of really getting across that you guys have been at this a long time and know how this works?

PJ Byrne: First of all, before you talked about going down the rabbit hole. I got to meet the rabbit in the rabbit hole. Irwin Winkler is in the room. He’s still producing. He’s 95 years old. He remembers 50 years ago like it’s 15 minutes ago. He’s a legend; he is still intimidating. If you think it’s intimidating playing someone that’s still alive, you should be in the same room and watching yourself portray him. It’s a very intimidating moment. But that being said, I think he and Bob Chartoff are one of the legendary [producing teams] and they had one mind and they complimented each other. When producers are on set — if there’s any in the room — they don’t talk a lot. They are observers. They are in the backdrop. They’re the ultimate backstop if the ball gets by the catcher; they’re there to put out fires. There is a lot of communication that Toby and I have just in looks. And Toby Kebbell, I’m not [giving] this performance without him. He’s an extraordinary actor. There is so much going on in his brain and his mind, and he’s a spectacular person to work with.

Villarreal: Tracy, you look like you’re having so much fun as Sandy. As somebody that’s been on the other side of notes or pushing back, what was it like playing that kind of arrogant executive that wants it his way? Were you modeling it after anyone you know?

Tracy Letts: My guy’s fictional, so I didn’t have to do any research. I was just able to make it up. When Peter and I first spoke, I had a long-winded explanation as to why I wanted a wig. I don’t remember why I wanted to wig, but I had long explanation for it. I got to the end and Peter said, “You can have whatever you want. It’s fine.” And they gave me a wig and I’m still not really clear why I’m wigged, other than I asked for it. It was great fun, and the script was great, and I love “Rocky” — though for the longest time I kept calling this movie “I Hate Rocky.” People would say, what are you working on? I’d say, “Oh, I’m making this movie called ‘I Hate Rocky’ ” and they’re like, “ ‘What?’ ” I was like, “Oh no. It’s not called ‘I Hate Rocky,’ it’s called ‘I Play Rocky.’ ” It was a great time; it’s great fun. I will tell you one funny story. One day, Peter gave me a note. He asked me to tone it down. I turned to PJ and Toby and I said, the director of “Dumb and Dumber” just told me I was a little too big.

Byrne: That’s very true. That was a 10-minute laugh.

Villarreal: Jay, you’re playing a guy who directed a massive studio underdog story but had to shoot it like an indie. You’re familiar with that. You’re a champion of indie filmmaking. Did playing John [John G. Avildsen, the director of “Rocky”] give you a new technical appreciation for what he achieved? Did you find yourself thinking, “How would I have handled this if it were me?”

Jay Duplass: It made me think maybe I should be more of a d—. It was a real treat to just bark at people and holler and yell and demand what I needed because, as Pete knows, in this culture, we gotta be real sweet. We gotta be real sweethearts. But there was something incredibly refreshing about just playing a guy who is not trying to be nice. He’s trying to make an excellent piece of art. And that’s almost impossible to do. And I applaud Pete Farrelly for doing it here today.

Villarreal: Peter, the original “Rocky” crew had to sprint through 28 days to get the film done. You had a tight 34 days.

Farrelly: That’s correct.

Villarreal: What scene or day on the set of the movie gave you the most “Rocky”-like challenge to pull off?

Farrelly: First of all, you know, that is true. This is a relatively low-budget movie and we had 34 days. To put it in perspective, “Rocky” had more extras than we had. We couldn’t afford extras. Making a movie, even starting with a script this good — this is the best script I’ve ever read — when you get in the editing room, you have to let the movie find itself. As “Rocky” did. In fact, the end of the original “Rocky” is they’re in the ring and they’re hugging — that’s the end. But there was more to it. There was a little tail after that where everyone’s gone and it’s Rocky and Adrian and they have a little thing and then they walk out of the room. That’s, by the way, the poster shot from the original “Rocky” — it’s those two walking away. That’s never in the movie. That was something they shot that got cut out. Our thing had the exact same thing. And the hardest thing that we shot in this movie was that fight over the end credits. We took a week to do that. We only had six and a half weeks [total]. We took a whole week to do that thing. That was the one we had to be very careful about. But then when I was in the editing room and showing it to friends, when he runs up those stairs and he’s at the top and we have that music playing, it’s hard to get that high again. Everybody said we should just end there. I said, “I took a week shooting the fight! I don’t want to lose the fight.” It took me a while to just accept [that] you gotta let it end where it wants to end. It ended on top of those stairs, and then we decided to put the thing that was the hardest to shoot in the entire movie over the end credits.

Villarreal: Anthony and Stephan, knowing what this film means for the boxing community or how it was received, were you fixated on brushing up on how to fight, or was it essential to wing it the way they did, figuring it out in the moment like they did?

Ippolito: We got kind of banged up a little bit.

James: There were a couple of inadvertent punches from Anthony that I’m still healing from, but it’s all good. I forgive you.

Ippolito: When you’re trying to learn the depth perception of pulling the punch, sometimes [it] gets mixed up, and then you catch one. And that’s OK, because we’re making a movie. We had to figure out how to do this. I kind of fibbed to Peter when we were at dinner before the movie. I was like, “Yeah, [I’m] boxing, all the time.” I hadn’t. We figured it out, and hitting a speed bag is something that takes some time to learn. There’s tons of stuff, but we know how important it is to people who love the movie.

James: Anthony and I spent a lot of time training at the world-famous boxing gym Gleason’s in downtown Brooklyn — shout out to Gleason’s! — with our incredible trainer, Bobby Beckles. It was amazing to watch Anthony from the other side of that ring and the way he lost himself in Stallone and dedicated every moment; the attention to detail. It really made me want to rise to the occasion just seeing the revelation that he was, witnessing the revelation that was his performance in this film. Thank you for that, Anthony.

Villarreal: Matt mentioned earlier his memory of watching “Rocky.” Some of you were maybe there watching it in theaters. What do you remember about that experience? Jay?

Duplass: This is a pinch-me moment being here right now, having this experience with you guys. One of my first memories of my entire life is sitting on my mom’s lap at a drive-in. It’s called the Do Drive-In in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1977. I was 4 years old. I was watching what I thought was a movie about a man and his two pets, Cuff and Link, the turtles. It’s my favorite movie of all time. It’s just incredible that I got paid to go to Philly and cosplay being the director of my favorite [movie] of all-time and witnessing this incredible performance by Anthony and everybody else here. But in particular, just literally directing Anthony on set and seeing this performance happen, it’s a real mind-blowing moment. Also culturally, in 1976 people had come out of Vietnam. They really needed a movie that could tell them that anything is possible. And I think we’re in a weird moment like that right now. And what’s incredible, and Pete’s been saying this, is that the story of Stallone coming from his car and winning the Academy Award is actually a bigger win than what is portrayed in the original “Rocky.” And what I love so much about it is that it happened. It’s real, and we can rely on that and know that miracles are possible.

Villarreal: Peter Gamble, what do you remember about seeing it the first time? And how many times did you watch it in the writing of this?

Gamble: I would watch it; I would read the script, which was different than the movie, which was really interesting to see. What I just remember is that this movie was one of those movies that would come on TV and you’d be like, “Oh, I’ve seen this before, let me just watch five minutes” and then you just watch it to the end because you couldn’t look away. What’s interesting about this movie to me is that it’s not just a movie that moved people. It’s a movie that is part of people’s culture. You talk to someone from Philadelphia and it’s like a part of their heart and their soul. There’s something special about it. It captured believing in yourself. It captured never giving up it. It captured just going forward and never stopping punching. That is such a powerful message that the universe wants conveyed and still wants conveyed. I was very grateful to be a small part of it.

Villarreal: Before we wrap, Anthony, I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but can you tell me what it was like actually meeting the guy you’re portraying? What is that experience like? Did he put you on the spot and say, “Let me see your impression of me?”

Ippolito: He had seen the materials that I sent Peter and Rick Montgomery, the casting director — both of these guys, I’m very grateful to. Thankfully, he responded positively, or else I don’t know if I’d be sitting here talking to you tonight. Getting to speak to him and really understanding how married to his vision he was and what that is and what it takes to go up against producers or a studio that don’t see it as a possibility, and he had the paralysis in his face since he was born. And just looking at him as an underdog in the context of this story and of his own life, you can’t help but admire all the things that he persevered through. Getting to speak to him was an absolute privilege.

Villarreal: Congratulations on this film. Is there room for a sequel?

Farrelly: “I Play Rambo” in preproduction.

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